(Updated – 07 August 2014; see below)

Former U.S. Representative Steve LaTourette served 18 years (1995-2013) in Congress as a center-right Republican from Ohio. Yesterday, he had an op/ed in Politico, entitled “The Grifting Wing vs. The Governing Wing”. In it, LaTourette describes the internal civil war facing the GOP, as a party today. Consider two grafs from it:

“The grifting wing of the party promises that you can have ideological purity—that you don’t have to compromise—and, of course, all you have to do is send them money to make it happen. The governing wing of the Republican Party knows that’s a damn lie. Our Founding Fathers set up a system of government that by its very nature excludes the possibility of one party or one ideological wing of one party getting everything it wants. Ted Cruz, who quotes the founders almost every chance he gets, ought to know this.

Even Ronald Reagan—who won in two of the biggest landslides in American history—was forced to compromise. It was President Reagan who cut deals with Democrats to extend the solvency of Social Security and put the federal budget on a sounder footing. It was Reagan who famously said that someone who votes with him 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally. Reagan’s record and rhetoric stands in marked contrast to the grifting win of the party today, even as the grifters invoke his memory in their disingenuous appeals.

That op/ed by LaTourette is exactly what’s happening in next Tuesday’s (12 Aug 14) GOP Primary for State House District 48B. Let’s take a closer look at that graphic, above, which is a screenshot from of Sheila Kihne’s blog (with “Reagan” entered into the search field):

Invoke Reagan? Invoke “Founding Fathers”? Kihne does it all the time, just like LaTourette spoke of, in this op/ed linked above. Ms. Kihne is challenging State Representative Jenifer Loon in the primary because, essentially, Kihne feels Loon isn’t conservative enough. So much for Reagan’s “80% and you’re my friend” for Ms. Kihne…

Ms. Kihne appears to be a political opportunist – a grifter, if you will – of the worst sort. Ms. Kihne’s main attack on Rep. Loon is a vote to legalize same-sex marriage in Minnesota; a vote Rep. Loon describes in a recent Minnesota Public Radio (“MPR”) story thusly:

“(Rep. Loon) said she voted for same-sex marriage after talking it over with constituents, noting that a majority in her district voted against the proposed constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage in 2012.

She didn’t regret the vote but added, “It was tough. I never had to make such a tough decision in the Legislature. I just think if people can understand the process, understand how much I wrestled with it, trying to be true to my own beliefs, to being true to what I felt my constituency was telling me. I did the best I could with a tough issue.”

In the same story Kihne is now on record for not – let me repeat that, “not” – supporting repeal of the marriage law. In short, Kihne is so upset about that vote – “the straw that broke the camel’s back” – she’s running for election but, if elected, she won’t do a thing about it: “Kihne says she won’t push to repeal the same-sex marriage law if elected” Kihne is running away from the reason she’s running – marriage restrictions.

But Kihne was more than happy to take the money from those that, one could easily assume, want to do exactly that.

If that isn’t opportunism, what is?

After you peel back Sheila Kihne’s facade of fiscal conservative views, she’s got one issue – making her yet again a “single issue candidate.” Michael Brodkorb summed up what Kihne’s challenge, Kihne’s “issue,” is really all about: “It’s all about Sheila”. From it:

“Loon is just the unfortunate person standing in the way of Kihne’s insatiable ego. The only mistake Loon made was living in the same district as Kihne. The analysis of this race isn’t complicated; this is about Kihne wanting to have a larger platform to promote her views, push her agenda and have the world function the way Kihne believes it should.”


It’s all about Sheila selling Sheila, and then Sheila running from what she ran for. That’s her track record. Case in point – Sheila’s now running from what she’s written, calling what she’s written, like the post where she trashed military veterans, “facetious.” Sheila will tell you that keeping your word is important. Apparently, not so much with hers. Around the district I hear: “Is there anyone Sheila hasn’t turned on?”

Next Tuesday’s House District 48B Primary is a case in point for Republican Steve Tourette’s op/ed, “The Grifting Wing vs. The Governing Wing”.

* * *
UPDATE – 07 August 2014
The Star Tribune newspaper published its endorsement today: “Endorsement: Loon over Kihne in GOP state House primary”. In it they note Kihne “declined to meet with a Star Tribune Editorial Board screening panel before the primary.” Bottom line? Rather than answer tough questions on policy and potentially tougher questions on her past writings, she chose to run away – she “declined” to articulate and defend her positions and writings.

This should not come as a surprise. Earlier this year (June 11th, 2014 to be exact) she announced on her “Sheila Kihne for House 48B Eden Prairie” that she wouldn’t be answering questions from the Chamber of Commerce: “I respectfully decline completing the questionnaire.”

Compare/contrast with Rep. Jenifer Loon, who, as far as I know, will talk to anyone. Undoubtedly, Ms. Kihne will defend her choices to run away from questions from the Strib and Chamber. These decisions are not the actions a confident candidate would make, but it does make Ms. Kihne, especially when combined with the original post, a candidate clearly earning the dubious distinction as “The Running Away Woman.”
* * *

Tagged with:

I called the Eden Prairie Chamber of Commerce today. Their Communications Manager, Samantha Dummel, answered. Asked her when the Chamber was going to announce their endorsements for City Council, State House & Senate, and Congress. She passed me off to the Chamber President, Pat MulQueeney – voice mail left. Followed up with an email; let’s look!

Mr. MulQueeney,

My name is Tommy Johnson; I’m a blogger and resident of Eden Prairie.

Is the EP Chamber planning to endorse for City Council, State House & Senate, and Congress this year?

If so, when are the screenings scheduled, and when does the Chamber plan on announcing the endorsements?

I’m planning on writing about this tomorrow; a reply today would be appreciated.

I’ve also read that the Chamber is in support of SouthWest Light Rail and was supportive of the new Vikings football stadium bill; please reply with a statement for publication if the preceding is incorrect.

Tommy Johnson

Not to my surprise, The Chamber never replied.

But Candidates did! I’ve just learned Candidates were told there were not going to be endorsements this year; only a questionnaire the Chamber would post on-line.

Why would the Chamber refuse to endorse, and do a questionnaire?

Is it because GOP State Senator Hann and GOP Rep Kurt Stensrud opposed the Vikings stadium (“Winter Park” – the Vikings Headquarters – is located in Eden Prairie)?

Is it because GOP State Senator Hann and GOP Rep Kurt Stensrud opposed SouthWest Light Rail Transit, which the Chamber supports?

Is it because GOP State Senator Hann and GOP Rep Kurt Stensrud are so extreme, so beholden to Party Uber Local Issues, even the Eden Prairie Chamber of Commerce couldn’t go that far?

Stay tuned!

(cross posted at MnProgressiveProject.com; comments welcome there)

You’d have to be living under a rock not to have heard a GOPer politician claim: “Gov’t has to live within its means!” That tripe is spouted from the very top to the very bottom. Yesterday, the State Republican Party posted on it’s website GOPer and Occasional Gov. Tim Pawlenty reinforcing this:

“Republicans…agree with Tom Emmer’s central principles: government must live within its means;…

And that IS one of Emmer’s central themes; this is from GOPer Emmer’s campaign website:

To end budget deficits, you need to cut spending. Trim the fat. When a family experiences a change in its income, that family adjusts its budget accordingly. If they have less money, they spend less money. This simple form of money management is completely lost on state government. Standing in the way of real reform is how government balances its budget. It spends first, and then seeks the funding. (emphasis added)

And endorsed GOPer Candidates all the way down the line; all the way down to the local level here in Eden Prairie dutifully parrot and spew that party line. Those quotes are below the fold.

Why do I bring this up? Because of a recent story in the Strib:

Minn. GOP starts Sept. in red, Dems also on fumes
Associated Press
Last update: September 24, 2010 – 8:56 AM
Monthly financial reports filed this week with federal election regulators show both parties owed vendors hundreds of thousands of dollars at the end of August.

The Minnesota GOP’s situation was more severe. It had a negative cash balance of about $4,000 and owed about $680,000. The party took out a $200,000 loan in mid-August, putting office equipment up as collateral. (emphasis added)

To recap: GOPers believe that families and gov’t entities should tighten their belts and live within their means (but the GOP, as a Party, doesn’t have to!!!).

What you won’t hear GOPer Tom Emmer say:

“When a family experiences a change in its income, that family adjusts its budget accordingly. If they have less money, they spend less money. This simple form of money management is completely lost on the State GOP.”

Nor will you hear GOPer Tom Emmer say:

Standing in the way of real reform is how the State GOP balances its budget. It spends first, and then seeks the funding.

So when you see all those State GOP-paid negative “hit” mailers hit your mailbox (I’ve gotten three attacking DFL State Rep Maria Ruud, so far) remember that they’ve been financed by that ol’ GOPer trick they profess to oppose: deficit spending, or, just as accurate: “borrow and spend.”

Kicking the can down the road is the way today’s GOP “leadership” operates, and it’s Today’s Example Of “Republicans Believe In Fiscal Responsibility (Except When They Don’t).”

Well, it’s also another example of why reasonable people can no longer reasonably believe anything GOP “Leadership” says.

For instance, here’s essentially the same garbage from GOPer Erik Paulsen’s website:

“One of my top priorities is to bring fiscal sanity to Washington because you can’t spend more

than you have.”

Really? That’s not the way the State GOP operates, Erik! Paulsen should bring a load of that “fiscal sanity” over to GOP HQ, in St. Paul!

Paulsen is known for saying things that, charitably, defy credibility.

Like, this!

Restoring Fiscal Discipline

Reckless Washington spending and continued taxpayer bailouts are threatening the future of our country and saddling our children and grandchildren with record debt.

What makes that statement defy credibility, is the “reckless spending” of taxpayer money that Paulsen has spent – on himself. Paulsen got called out on the carpet for his excessive spending on his taxpayer-paid mailers not only in a Strib Letter To The Editor, but across this great country – from the Baltimore Sun to the Witchia Eagle to the Las Vegas Review-Journal to the…. well, a LOT of places.

The Hendersonville, North Carolina Times-News specifically took Paulsen to task:

The idea that a representative would use as much as one third of his office budget, money meant to be spent in ways that benefit constituents, on thinly veiled re-election entreaties, is unconscionable. It’s an inappropriate use of the funds, and it presents an unfair advantage for incumbents.

Such spending should be eliminated. If politicians want to send glossy, self-promoting pamphlets about themselves, they can pay for them themselves.

Indeed. And it’s not as if Paulsen couldn’t spend his own cash on himself; here’s what his website proudly proclaims:


Eden Prairie, MN – Congressman Erik Paulsen (MN-03) raised $379,862 during the second quarter of 2010 to give his re-election campaign a total of $1,347,000 cash on hand.

“It is clear my message of fiscal discipline and job growth is certainly resonating with people in the 3rd District,” said Paulsen. “I will continue to work hard every day to put a lid on excessive government spending and push for greater economic prosperity for all Minnesotans. I also want to thank my campaign volunteers, who are working very hard to promote our grassroots effort. Now, with this level of financial support, we can make sure our message is heard.”

To date, Paulsen has raised $1.9 million during the 2010 election cycle.

Hmmm… Paulsen, sitting on $1.3 million of campaign cash… yet out of the 435 Members Of Congress, Paulsen spent more taxpayer dough “on thinly veiled re-election entreaties” than 432? Yes, in total mailer spending, at the time of that editorial, only 2 Members Of Congress had spent more than Postage-Stamp Paulsen.

And some people actually wonder why I say that these days, GOP stands for Greed Over Principles??!?

Now let’s take a look at GOPer endorsed Candidate for State House in 42-A, Kirk Stensrud:

Minnesota families are making tough choices every day. Let’s elect a representative who is willing to do the same for our state!

* Not beholding to special interests groups or supporters who continue to put us into debt and stifle our economy.

Now, it’s not really realistic to expect GOPer Endorsed Candidate Kirk Stensrud to criticise the State GOP’s deficit spending; the State GOP has used that deficit spending to mail at least 3 negative “hit” pieces (that I know of) on his opponent – so far. The State GOP’s deficit spending sure is working for Kirk Stensrud!

Of course, to believe GOPer Candidate Kirk Stensrud, one would also have to believe that the State GOP isn’t a “special interest group” or, after sending all those negative “hit” pieces against his opponent, a “supporter”….

Here’s what GOPer Endorsed State Senator David Hann’s website has to say:

MN State Senator David Hann tells what the state must do to live within its means during this time of economic downturn.

Now, one presumably will NOT hear GOPer David Hann criticize the State GOP for “not living within its means during this time of economic downturn” — he’s probably hoping that the State GOP spends some o’ that borrowed dough for a negative “hit” piece or three on his opponent!

GOPer Endorsed State Rep Jenifer Loon?

“I believe our government needs the same kind of fiscal discipline Eden Prairie families are applying to their own budgets, and must live within its means.”

Does anyone really expect GOPer Loon to say:

“I believe our State GOP needs the same kind of fiscal discipline Eden Prairie families are applying to their own budgets, and must live within its means.”

I sure don’t.

GOPer Endorsed Candidate for Mayor, Jon Duckstad, apparently doesn’t even know what “deficit spending” is; see “Professor Duckstad Flunks Econ. 101″. Yet Duckstad’s website chimes in with the same tired tripe, too:

“If our citizens are enduring wage freezes, layoffs and their own belt-tightening budgets, then the city should do likewise.

Let’s keep Eden Prairie on the right track with common sense leadership and responsible spending.”

Go with that, Professor. One can hardly expect GOPer Endorsed Candidate For Mayor Duckstad to say the following, can we?

“If our citizens are enduring wage freezes, layoffs and their own belt-tightening budgets, then the State GOP should do likewise.

Let’s get the State GOP back on track with common sense leadership and responsible spending.”

Now we’re going to look at what GOPer Endorsed Candidate for City Council Donna Azarian’s website has to say, but first I have to remind our Gentle Readers of Azrian’s blatant cut ‘n paste from disgraced and fellow GOPer Endorsed Mayor Phil Young. So the question must be asked: is it real, or is it Azarian? Anyway, this is from “her” website:

Using Money Wisely: We can’t afford to spend more than we have and neither should government.

And it’s pretty clear with Cut ‘n Paste Donna, that the only way SHE’D say….

Using Money Wisely: We can’t afford to spend more than we have and neither should the State GOP.

…is if GOP “Leadership” told her to say it. And, Gentle Readers, you know – KNOW – that’s not going to happen.


Well, I’ll say it again:

Kicking the can down the road is the way today’s GOP “leadership” operates, and its Today’s Example Of “Republicans Believe In Fiscal Responsibility (Except When They Don’t).”

And it’s also another example of why reasonable people can no longer reasonably believe anything GOP “Leadership” says – especially their endorsed candidates.

(cross posted from MnProgresiveProject.com; commens welcomed there)

As regular readers know, I’ve been following the sordid story of the GOP Endorsed Eden Prairie Mayor, Phil Young. And – NOT to my surprise – local GOPers have been defending fellow GOPer Phil Young for falsifying reimbursement forms by filling out for meetings he never attended. Make no mistake, Young – in his interview with Police – admitted he knew when he filled out the forms what he was putting down was not true.

The local GOPers defending GOPer Young include GOP State Rep Jenifer Loon’s Campaign Manager (Gary Stevens) and a GOP SD42 Vice Chair (Kevin Schultz). Schultz claimed he was speaking only for himself; yeah – “right.”

Yet yesterday, FEC Tony (GOP Chair Tony Sutton) and his side-kick MudSlingerMike (GOP Deputy Chair Michael Brodkorb) took a cheap shot (hey, they’re GOPers; whaddya expect?) at State Auditor Rebecca Otto.

Which, of course, is “Today’s Example Of GOPers Care About Protecting Public Funds (Except When They Don’t)”

So I’ll be talking with Rebecca Otto today on Quick On The Uptake – I’m sitting in for Host Mike McIntee!

Now, State Auditor Otto probably can’t say much; as required by state law her office was notified early on about GOPer Young dippin’ into the ol’ Taxpayer Till. But I’m sure she’ll have plenty to say about the cheap shot the GOPers took at her!

I’ll also be talking with John Van Hecke from MN2020.org about a report from economic policy fellow Lee Egerstrom that looks at how Northern European countries have heavily influenced the Minnesota economy and its social safety net systems; fellow blogger Dave Mindeman, and State Rep Frank Hornstein, who just got back from the Gulf – we’ll talk about how the BP Oil Spill and how it might affect Minnesota’s migratory birds.

The call-in number is 952-946-6205 to join in the conversation!

So tune in your radio today to AM-950 KTNF, or listen live on your computer, here!

(cross posted from MnProgressiveProject.com; comments welcome there)

…”Today’s Example Of Greed Over Principles.”

I’ve been following the continuing Eden Prairie GOPer Mayor Phil Young Scandal; Part 5 (which has links to parts 1, 2, 3 and 4) is here.

And I’d like to reiterate what I told the Eden Prairie City Council on June 15th:


Yesterday, the Strib published an Editorial regarding Mayor Young. On their webpage, they excerpted one question and answer between Detective Hultgren and Mayor Young. I also submitted a Data Practices Act Request with the Plymouth Police Department, and have read the entire investigation that is public information. The final 4 pages are here (page 45) and here (page 46) and here (page 47) and here (page 48). It starts with Detective Hultgren describing how he was assigned to the case, and the facts he found. Make no mistake — Detective Hultgren found perjury, plain and simple. From page 48:

On 6/11/2010 (City Prosecutor) Renz contacted me and asked that I (Det. Hultgren) again send this case to the County Attorney for possible felony perjury charges. Renz believed this was the most obvious charge after he reviewed the facts.
On 7-12-2010 Renz advised me that his office was declining to charge Mayor Young with a misdemeanor.

OK, so why didn’t City Attorney Renz prosecute Mayor Young under misdemeanor perjury? Because he can’t; perjury by definition is a felony. That explains Renz’ cryptic press release: “…though there may be provable charges at levels or in forums over which Mr. Renz does not have jurisdiction.”

After reading through the whole Plymouth Police Investigation, it’s obvious: Young knew when he filled out all those forms that included the phrase “I declare under penalties of perjury…” the information Young filled in was not true.

And Young did it over and Over and OVER. Just one time – just ONE TIME – is perjury; the Plymouth Police Department clearly proved Young did it over and Over and OVER.

One can easily surmise Young would still be doing just that, had he not been caught. It’s a shame he won’t be prosecuted.

Stay tuned!

(cross posted from MnProgressiveProject; comments welcome there)

…”Today’s Example Of Greed Over Principles.”

I’ve been following the continuing Eden Prairie GOPer Mayor Phil Young Scandal; Part 4 (which has links to parts 1, 2, and 3) is here.

Last Tuesday, as noted here, I addressed the Eden Prairie City Council. One thing I said is this:


And it sure looks like there are!

The City Of Eden Prairie appoints a Council Representative to a local non-profit, the Eden Prairie Foundation. The current Board make-up of that non-profit is here. On that page, you will see the City Council’s appointed Representative is Kathy Nelson – NOT Mayor Phil Young.

And if you link to the January 8th, 2008 City Council Minutes here, you’ll see on Page 5:


Neal noted the Eden Prairie Foundation is a local philanthropic organization in the City. He said this appointment is approved on an annual basis, and Council Member Nelson is currently serving on the foundation.

Young recommended Council Member Nelson’s reappointment.
(emphasis added)

MOTION: Aho moved, seconded by Butcher, to approve appointment of Council Member Nelson to the Eden Prairie Foundation. Motion carried 5-0.

I you link here to the January 6th, 2009 minutes, you’ll see Council Member Nelson again appointed as City Council Representative to that non-profit – and, again, on a 5-0 vote.

Everybody got that? Council Member Nelson is entitled to receive Meeting Attendance Reimbursement from City taxpayers for attending meetings with this very, Very, VERY worthy non-profit – NOT Mayor Phil Young.

So, what does GOPer Mayor Young do, on February 5th, 2009?

Turn in a handwritten “City Council Meeting Attendance Claim Form” – under the penalty of perjury – for a 27 January 2009 meeting with that non-profit.

And he did it again and Again and AGAIN — claiming reimbursements for allegedly – ALLEGEDLY – attending meetings with that non-profit on 23 February 2009, 20 March 2009, and 29 May 2009.

And I say allegedly, because the meeting room that non-profit almost always meets at (for regular meetings) is located at City Hall, and a Data Practices Request filed with the City reveals the non-profit did NOT meet at the City in their normal room on the dates Young claimed reimbursement for.

Either way, the claims Young filed – and signed under penalty of perjury – appear to be fraudulent. If there actually were meetings with this non-profit that Mayor Young attended, he received compensation he doesn’t appear entitled to because he is NOT the City Council Representative to that non-profit.

Of course, if there weren’t meetings on the dates Young claimed, that just makes Young’s position worse: claiming compensation he wasn’t entitled to, for meetings that didn’t exist.

But, hey! It’s not like Young hasn’t done that before!

E-mails to the non-profit concerning this matter, by people in a position to confirm or deny if there were meetings and if Young attended, have not been returned.

Stay tuned!!!

(cross posted from MnProgressiveProject; comments welcome there)

…”Today’s Example Of Greed Over Principles.”

Yesterday, the Strib did an update* on Republican Mayor Phil Young’s problems. Most notable was the news that while Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman’s office declined to prosecute for felony charges, Eden Prairie’s Prosecutor sent the case to the Metropolitan Airports Commission’s Prosecuting Attorney due to possible conflict of interest issues. That Prosecutor is considering misdemeanor, or even gross misdemeanor, charges.

Should be a slam-dunker.

As noted in Part 1 and in Part 2 and in Part 3, Eden Prairie Mayor Phil Young is in a whole lotta trouble; trouble of his own making because he filled out meeting reimbursement claim forms – in his own handwriting – for meetings he didn’t attend (26 at the last count, according to the Strib) and then signed them under penalty of perjury. Additionally, “The Mayor Who Would Be Judge” (we’ll get to that in a future post) turned in a mileage claim for attending meetings he never attended — takin’ the ol’ unearned double-dip from the city’s taxpayer-provided coffers. Oh – and again, that double-dip was in his own handwriting, and – again – signed under penalty of perjury.

How’s THAT for a neat little trick by a GOPer with a reputation for watchin’ the Public’s Purse like a hawk?

Phil Young is the perfect example of a GOPer running for office on the platform “You can’t trust gov’t!!!” – and, once in power, proving it.

All the above deals with just the 26 meetings of the Minnesota Regional Council of Mayors GOPer Young claimed he went to, under penalty of perjury, but didn’t. I’ve been taking a closer look at some of the other meetings Young claimed reimbursement for, and today we’ll look at GOPer Young’s claimed meeting with GOPer State Representative Jenifer Loon!

The questions I emailed to Rep. Loon, R = ChamberOfCommerce 42B, are below the fold:

From: TwoPuttTommy (redacted)
Sent: Tue 6/01/10 10:19 AM
To: Rep. Loon (redacted)
Subj: 2nd Request: 22 February 2010 Meeting With Mayor Phil Young

Dear Rep. Loon,

As you know, I am a blogger at www.MnProgressiveProject.com and an occasional Guest Host on AM950 KTNF radio. I am writing about the current scandal involving Mayor Young.

According to Mayor Young’s 15 March 2010 City Council Meeting Attendance Claim Form, Mayor Young attended a meeting with you – which he was reimbursed for. Presumably, as the Mayor Young was reimbursed, the meeting had to deal with official governmental business. Accordingly, can you tell me where the meeting was held, and how long the meeting lasted?

Where there any others in attendance during this meeting? What official governmental issues were discussed? Did you keep any notes of this meeting?

Did you claim any monetary reimbursement for attending this meeting?

Your prompt response is appreciated.

Tommy Johnson

I originally sent that email on May 24th; followed up with the above on June 1st, and left a voicemail for Rep. Loon on the same day.

Yesterday, I called her office to follow up; the friendly person answering the phone suggested I call Rep. Loon at home – and even provided the number!

So, I did.

I told Rep. Loon why I was calling; she told me she couldn’t comment as the case was still under investigation. I asked her if she had gotten my emails and voice mail; she said she had. I asked her if her position was still “no comment” – she affirmed.

Two points: 1 – the case isn’t “still under investigation” – the Plymouth Police completed the investigation and forwarded the results to the Hennepin County Attorney for possible felony – FELONY - prosecution (as noted above, the case is now under review for possible misdemeanor prosecution); and 2 – Rep. Loon would not - NOT – even confirm nor deny that a meeting between an elected Mayor and an elected State Representative took place??!?


That “no comment” raises more questions – a LOT more questions – stay tuned!!!

* And For The Record – in yesterday’s Strib story, it was reported:

The matter is expected to come up at the Eden Prairie City Council meeting June 15, Eden Prairie City Manager Scott Neal said. Two people have asked to speak at the open forum, to ask for Young’s resignation.

One of those two, is me.

(cross posted from MnProgressiveProject; comments welcome there)